This blog is about spiritual awakening, maps and stages, the blinding effects of our strong momentum/conditioning (karmic propensities), view, realization, experience, etc. If you're new here, I recommend going through the 'Must Reads' articles (see sidebar). For discussions you are welcome to join my Facebook group, or my forum.
In my Facebook group "Dharma Connection" there happens to be many Dzogchen practitioners around so I posted this as it may interest them as I think it may also interest you as a reader. I've also posted some comments by Thusness below. (note: Thusness is not a Dzogchen practitioner so whatever he said need not be indicative of Dzogchen, just the practice and experience between us)
Rainbow Body Might Not Be What You Think It Is!
Since there's lots of Dzogchen practitioners, thought it might be interesting to share this piece of info. Malcolm: "KDL went though all four visions to the end. He told me this personally. Not only me, but others. He did realize rainbow body. Rainbow body, in Dzogchen, does not mean that your body disappears. This is a huge misconception....it is stupidly simple -- once you reach the end of the fourth vision, everything is a display of the five lights, as it is put in the classical text earth, rocks, mountains and cliffs vanish and instead one sees only the five pure lights.....In other words, rainbow body in essence is actually a realization...." ...
"No, but I have heard (from ChNN among others) that the disappearance of the body is not necessarily a sign of the body of light.
Hindus also gain control over the four elements, also Arhats can gain control over the four elements. Gaining control over the four elements is mundane siddhi, it is not excellent siddhi, nor is it reserved for Vajrayana and Dzogchen people. However, if someone has not studied in detail, they might think that many mundane siddhis are profound. So yes, what I am telling you is that I do not consider the so called rainbow body to much more than a display of mundane siddhi to create faith.
I am glad you have faith in the teachings, but as I said, I do not derive my faith in the teachings through illusions and phantasmagoria.
p.s. with regards to KDL, who is also Malcolm's teacher (he passed away in 2006) and Malcolm has said before that KDL is a fully awakened Buddha,
"Later when Rinpoche was relaxing in a lawn chair, he said to a few students gathered around him: "You don't realize this, but I am actually Guru Rinpoche and you are his twenty-five disciples. I have reached the stage of exhaustion of phenomena (cho nyi zepa). In truth there is for me no form, no sensation, no perception, no karmic formation, no consciousness, no form, no smell, no sense consciousness or object of sense consciousness and so forth; there is no self or other and no distinction of 'Buddhas' and 'sentient beings'; everything remains in the naturally perfect state of pure equality. From the depths of my heart I wish there were some way you could all be made to understand the truth in this, but you do not see it."
Then Rinpoche went silent and tears fell from his eyes."
Also, maybe not many of you here knows this - Malcolm (Loppon Namdrol) was asked to teach Dzogchen by KDL but he refused.
Thusness said to me:
"As I suspected (thumbs up) I mean the rainbow body. That can only be done after realization of twofold emptiness and intensity of luminosity into the three states (waking, dreaming, deep sleep)... you are doing pretty well. The integration has been progressing well of the non-dual bliss into your deep sleep state, in view of the short period after your realization of anatta. The inner core must completely disappear and the intensity of luminosity must heighten... Sensations will become transparent and crystal sharp clear.
At present the core center is gone... You write too much and have too little rest. Your mind must have enough time to rest in non-conceptuality of the 6 entries and exits. Otherwise it will not be easy for you to penetrate further. After realizing the twofold emptying there is no more boundaries between mind, appearances and apparent objects and experience becomes seamless... All is mind or this integrated activity. Then we should actualize and integrate this realization.
In touching, both subject and object are both emptied and deconstructed into a single activity of touch and the intensity of luminous clarity must be strong... is it strong now? Or just like passing thoughts with no intensity.
Now penetration of the 3 states is only supported by the strength of your view and realization, not by the intensity of your non-conceptual experience.
"In essence rainbow body is a realization..." Maybe actualization of realization (would be better), in essence it is an actualized state."
my comment: Dzogchen practitioners use the term 'Realization' differently than I and Thusness, 'Realization' could mean something like full actualization or Buddhahood for them and not just an initial insight/recognition/experience.
"I believe Malcolm Smith, Many texts state the "physical body reverts to the essence of the elements as rainbow light and disapears." Also there is a great deal of writing by many such as Longchenpa that describe the difference between the "vanishment of the physical body" between trekchod, rainbow body as "jalus" and "phowa chenpo" the Great Transfer. This is the goofiest of Malcolm's posts that I have ever read... Am I missing something?"
"Rainbow body where the body shrinks and disappears is a sign of incompletely finishing the fourth vision in this life."